Do we need a manager?

Posted by: saurav

After reading a lot of concepts and views in management and management theories I get rather confused what to manage and whom to manage. Probably being a programmer it is not so easy to understand the things right away as written and as different people have different thoughts. Most of the time for a programmers it becomes difficult to mange couple of lines of codes, so how can one imagine of managing 100 and even sometimes 10,000 of people.

In my point of view, we may not need managers to manage us. I totally disagree with the fact that the managers are the ones reporting to higher authority or managing the things for their subordinates. Every individual have their own history and can do their work efficiently other wise they wouldn’t have reached the place where they are now. So why do we need them at all? At the same time I do not support managers who are there for managing workflows. We can do the work in our own way and after a little practice we can manage the work flow efficiently.

After doing the overall analysis, as for me managers in best appear to be some one who can work in the interest of both company and employee. An ideal one for me is some one who takes out fun part of every work in front of his employee, even if the work is as boring as “Select top 10 from table”. One who is equally capable of driving the project like bus driver at the same time seating in the bus as passenger enjoying success of his subordinate. Work will be probably automated with such managers. Some one for whom the birthday of his company is equally important as birthday of his employee and distributes happiness every where…..

Do we need a manager? was last modified: August 1st, 2007 by saurav
 

Blog Comments

  1. LAVA KAFLE

    Thanks Pawan for wrapping it up. If somebody under some manager has not got dating chances / or ever asked for one/ or those who have non-handsome managers(M/F both) are using this topic for their frustration for not being able to climb fast because they do not know.

  2. pawan

    What type of manager? Well there is no way an idiot finds way to manager’s chair, and some girls definately prefer handsome managers or one who take them out once in a while. But in general, there should not be any problem with any managers, only exception are, who dont climb the hierarchical ladder fast enough or dont know how.

    no manager means mismanagement. do we need any further explanation?

  3. Amar

    As author has clarified the question again:
    1) What type of manager we want ?
    2) If there is no manager will it be good for enterprise or employee ?

    Here are my answers.
    For number 2) Plase read my previous comments December 16 2006 7:30 and December 15, 2006 6:48. In my opinion, without further elaboration this should answer the question adequately.

    For number 1) Please read the article by Rudra Who are true leaders ? with the comments posted by many commentator. Basically, Vision should be added among other characteristics and leader word can also denote manager.

    One more addition following this discussion I would like to add on top of what Rudra wrote is a manager should also be able to handle difficult personality.

  4. Saurav Thakur

    Let’s not discuss any specific character of one person. After all a single person does not defines total characteristic of every manger. The point is what type of manager we want. If there is no manager will it be good for enterprise or employee? Probably discussing some character rather then any individual will lead us towards some conclusion.

  5. pawan

    I think some bloggers are discussing manager in a point of view of character rather than job. But original discussion raised the question of necessity of the manager itself. They clearly missed the point.

    Rediscovering things are not bad but re-inventing literally again is totally different like we are doing here.

  6. Amar

    In spite of this discussion turning into personal war, it raises an interesting managerial experience. “Dovan” asked if LPK is going to say the same thing if he were his superior. My underlying assumption here is Dovan is thinking that if one is supervisor, subordinates will most of the time come with bouquets and salutes (“NAMASKAR HAKIM SAHEEB”). Not only caustic remarks some managers had been beaten and some had been killed. This is one of the challenges managers have to face. So managers not only need to be calm but also be able to make other people calm.

  7. dovan transformed

    I try last answer for whoever hell is LPK: blog is for scolding people at top.LPK just used the name Dovan as LPK could not remember anybody other than you. Any Rita/Ravi/Kavi/Harris/Kadir/Amitabh/Sita/Dovan/Dorpa/Dolma/Doma/Trivan/hari/krsna/..any name does not matter. You are smart in reflecting that LPK personally attacked you, but,LPK did not tell who you are? what you do? just put his opininon. Can you Prove your Identity? Can you prove that you are only you and no other Dovan? So, it is a blog. If LPK were under you and LPK did not like you in the corporate ladder (copying your name) LPK would have divorced( first trying to reach your position) with you in LPK terminology instead of telling you an idiot from writer’s view or wrongly placed executive from Favours from Top even in blog like this.Please scold as much as you can to anybody as it is blog and LPK can be anybody lpk ji or lpk or kpl or pkl.

  8. dovan

    lpk ji, I tried to read your comment but couldn’t get what u r trying to say.

    As u have started to make personal attacks, I guess it is time to call a ‘truce’.

    but a last question: would u have made such personal remarks to me if I were superior to u in the corporate ladder ?

  9. lpk

    Well, Dovan, do you mean to say that even if you have no quality of reaching a top post, and the Superiors that you pointed to feel that you will destroy the project and the company if you are made the manager , THEN, still they will make you manager if you are favored by Your SO-SO Superiors, Because you are favored one, and even if you may doom the project for now and company later? Or , The Superiors, who have staked their time and resources for a project and company allow you to be made manager happily knowing that you can ruin the projects and them, and, even if you have no ability of being a manager recently, BECAUSE DOVAN is Favored by So-Called Superiors, she is made Manager. They probably like you more than the Outputs of Project , so, You are made manager even if you have tendency of failing as a manager. Did you mean to say so?
    As an example,Deuba was manager of country when maoists started the armed struggle even though Deuba was made Prime Minister by the people. Maoists kept on fighting until they held a Peace treaty recently with Girja Manager. So, it is your human right to fight with/without arms againast management you do not like. For maoists it took 10 long years/thousands of lives to remove the Management that they thought was against the country, and, in your case it may be sooner and easier, because your way of criticizing bad management is certainly better than theirs and you may teach them effectively on how to not like the manager anywhere round the globe.
    Many People have told you in your other articles and I also want to march with them, Please do not use any personal references in this blog as You and any Commenter’s identity is supposed to be blogged. if you hate someone so much and you know who he/she is, you can personally talk/email/chat instead of making personal references. In one instance, I saw that you personally quoted at a different person altogether and I have not seen you saying sorry to the person even if he told that he is not who Dovan thinks.
    your Ideology seems to root down to that OLD Communist System where Top levels make their favorioutes’ as Manager. ChiNA is not So, if you see recent developments there due to liberalization. Another thing:
    Suppose, you are manager of your home /Office with your money, and say, you want some other manager to take your place as you have no time to look after it. Dovan, which person do you choose?
    the one who always puts 10 negative options to one positive idea of yours, OR, the person who you think will not be able to give you the benefits that you got when working by self, OR, the Person like me who always is against you ideologically, OR, the person who has already shown inability to compete with modern trends with liberal thinking, OR, that Person who has already done 1000 silly mistakes while working under you and you could not deliver to your customers in time thereby losing your credibility????????? I know, it is always easy to crticize others, I was also like you when my blood was hot, but, after gaining light of BUddha after visiting Swambhu, I have calmed down and I pray to GOD that you remain a good critique for ever.
    Last Line: not everybody is made the winner if you had felt in school/college…that somebody appears first/Second.. You will again criticize that they were favorites of teachers. You do not ask yourself: Why they were favorites and you were not? I do not know who you are, but, I want to say: Working in a Office is a marriage and if you feel that you are unable to sacrifice something for the goodness of an office where common goals are important like between husband and wife, then better go for divorce option. I have had 1000s of divorces already. I always promised that the new alliance I will never break , but PROMISES are MADE TO BE BROKEN. In that case, IF Dovan-Fathomed Superiors were there and I were their favorite, I would never have a single Divorce. HAAA GOD, i am like Bollywood/HollyWood..Actors…so many intricate relationships..So many Bondings and Divorces and never thought wrong against anybody..May be i am an Idiot Dovan? as you pointed out sometime ago..because i do not know what is good and what is bad.because I do not think like you..cuz..i don’t know how to think..I am an old machine… who cannot divorce now because all my energy has been gone for Divorcing last marriages and i do not wish to be a Guiness Record holder. May be I have learnt from Buddha , the virtue of Sacrifice.

  10. dovan

    Dear lpk ji calm down, that ‘idiot manager’ finger is not pointed at u nor to anybody…(just talking about a posibility, a possible accident, a possible disaster…tapaile mention garnu vayeko ‘ghumne mech maathiko andho maanche’ vanne title ko aashaya yahi haina ra??).

    I have never said that ‘we donot need managers’ . of course we need. But i have just supported the writers attempt tp question the very need.

    As u have mentioned, I am not ‘the World’s only genius who can decide that a person in manager’s chair is an Idiot or not’.
    But I feel that a good manager is the one who donot only seeks blessings of the superiors but also receives support of the sub-ordinates.

    p.s. Do we need a king ? NO .

  11. Amar

    Although there is no harm in rediscovering things again and again, but in order to make rapid progress, one has to learn from others. Even Einstein says he was just standing on the shoulder of giants.In the west, this question “Do we need managers” was raised 50 years back and practically resolved. As I have given the reference read Peter Drucker, “The practice of management.” If you want to read some recent books I really recommend reading Jim Collins “ Built to Last” and “Good to Great”. Quality of manager is not only Trust there are several things.

    As with many things, our books and concepts on most of the topics have lagged behind in compare to the west.

    In conclusion, the west is ruling the world through managers. By giving the examples of bad managers in our immediate environment, we cannot conclude that we don’t need mangers.

  12. lpk

    It looks that Dovan is the World’s only genius who can decide that a person in manager’s chair is an Idiot or not, because, Pawan has put his remarks that Dovan’s ideology fails as Company never puts an idiot into Manager’s chair. May be Dovan is little too over-smart to see managers as idiots, and, at the same time telling good managers are not idiots to put humble readers like us into dilemma. “Do we need a manager?” in itself is a negative question. AMAR has so beautifully explained what is essential to reap benefits. Somewhere on top, Dovan has even charactrized Manager with the KING..You can post topic with Do we need a King?

  13. pawan

    If you want to grow international then ‘managing job’ is key mantra. Know it, sleep it, and dream it.

    I know some manager always flirt girls (and some girls like it, yes they do). And when someone say ‘it is submission for good cause…’ then you know what he mean. Managers are not there to make difference between humans and animals. Just leave the animals alone, will you?

    Who said company want idiot managers in revolving chai?

  14. Amar

    As you have stated, in my early days, being a programmer I always used to wonder and ponder about the necessity of a manager. I even used to think that these guys were exploiting us. However, after spending sometime in management books and with some experience, I started valuing the job of a manager. I think it is better to learn from others mistakes. Here is an example: Henry Ford I, the founder of Ford Company and a great inventor, also thought the same thing and did not want any mangers and thus ensued the decline of Ford Company at that time. Ford Company was brought to profit by his grandson, Henry Ford II, by introducing management concept which he borrowed from General Motor, the competitor of the Ford Company. Please read book by Peter Drucker in the “Practice of Management” page 111-120. It is also worthwhile to note that Russians during Soviet era copied Henry Ford’s idea, and purge industrial managers, and we know the result.

  15. dovan

    “Ghumne mech maathiko Andho maanchhe” is one of the greatest books that I have read. It is written by ‘Bhupi Sherchan’, one of the greatest Nepali writer.

    A good manager surely makes things go great.
    But like the title of the book suggests , ‘what if some idiot is manager?’

  16. lpk

    After Apple Orange Comparisons and the Trust analogy, I can feel something new. I start analyzing why new generations like Author Saurav and Commentor Dovan somehow dislike managers/management on the whole. Yes, even my son does not want to be ruled by his manager, his mother.I like him to be mismanaged. I am happy when he does things that nobody else has done as a child. Everybody wants to become president/Prime Minister blah blah..but what new gen do not understand is: Culture/Tradition of management is making humans distinct from animals. Human beings allow other to be superior, that Other which has some extra potential. It is submission for the good cause,as democracy and liberalization perceive.
    The Title should better have been “Why we do not need a manager?”. Imagine, we without management, our vehicles unmanaged, our destiny unmanaged, our daily things unmanaged…You would not know everestuncensored.org is the site to post the blog if non-managed brain existed in you or me. if our words were unmanaged how do we recognize your feelings that you do not want managers to rule you..It can mean that you never want to be a manager, because it is not person specific, but, Post Specific, the Chair Specific..as BP Koirala or other writer I forgot put it:”Ghumne mech maathiko Andho maanchhe”, The BLIND MAN SITTING ON REVOLVING CHAIR OF MANAGER.

  17. dovan

    Sauravji ko ‘lateral perspective’ on management and need for management is very good.
    We have to question even the very notions and faiths that are held universally true.
    राजा बिनाको देश नै कल्पना गर्न नसक्ने मांछे पनि त छन् ।

    I too would like to share my views on management.
    Some managers are dumb, some smart, some are interesting , some lethargic, some are efficient, some ineffective, some are encouraging, some humiliating, some are smooth talkers, some fumblers,
    Some very dominating, some laid-back, some very rude, some too soft-spoken, some are visionary, some worthless.
    Each manager is different, and it would be unfair to the managers if we try to create an ideal template and compare our manager with that.
    But the basic thing that each and every manager should entrust upon their subordinates is ‘Trust’.

    Aaja Dovanlai k vayecha .. khali trust trust vancha vannu hola…
    After all, ‘trust’ is the basis of each and every living relationships. haina ra?

  18. Saurav Thakur

    In believe, we need some one to take out interesting stuff of works rather then just concentrate on managing the jobs. If we know the interesting stuffs of our jobs we can do the Jobs more efficiently. I DO Support, we all need managers may be for different reasons.

  19. pawan

    Management is not limited to human. It has wide scope. e.g. resource management. And reporting to higher author is just a tip of the iceberg comparing the real job they do. You don’t need manager to manage codes until it spread over tens of millions of page.

    comparing SQL manager with real manager is like comparing apples with oranges. thats really bad analogy.

  20. SQLQuerymanager

    Well, you are the best person to judge that no managers are necessary anywhere if we see evolution of Earth from monkey,chimpangees,..to Human beings of today because without managers the world had reached where it is because some self-management that you have deemed necessary without anybody to govern may have been fruitful as long as anarchy does not rule because all self-manage themselves without any MGR. Even your Example SQL Query has sqlmangr…although millions of SQL Queries are managed by Query Writers/managers …like you …hahahhaaaa imagine that your queries start being written and executed ALL by Themselves.

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